Curse

Samurai-JM · Mar 31, 2007, 02:46 AM // 02:46

I'm sure threads like this have been made a thousand times over, but I'm truly confused here. Ever since factions came out, many people have utterly despised assassins. It is still nearly impossible to get a decent group with an assassin, and most of the time people ridicule assassins for not being as good as other professions. Why? I just spent a few minutes looking through threads such as the 3 most/least favorite professions, and more often than not(other than the huge amounts of paragon hate) assassins were on the bad lists, and only ONCE did anyone post a reason. That reason was this: "1-trick pony and teleport is a feature I can miss like toothache." One trick? Please.

Let us look over some of the facts about Assassins, and why many people hate/love them.

Hate:
1. Assassins die too much.
-They do? How can this be possible when it is so easy to put something like critical defenses, flashing blades, mystic regen, or even earth armor spells into a build? Newer players die all the time with assassins sure, but most of the times they have like 7 attack skills and shadow refuge. I've found in nearly any situation any one of the above skills can easily prevent masses of death in even the most elite areas. Then add skills from secondary professions to increase this ability in many more ways as well.

2. Assassins have 70 defense.
-So having -10 AL from the maximum is bad? Check out the inscriptions! Every one of them provides between 10-20 armor to certain areas, or a full 15 while attacking. Add one armor skill to that and you far surpass a warrior! On top of that, 75% blocking skills are very common in assassin builds, as they have more of them than any other, except perhaps the ranger. Assassins are however, the only profession who can keep them up constantly with only one skill.

3. Assassins can't do anything but teleport around.
-Ah so thats why is the #1 skill used by x/A players a shadow step? Other than necromancers(which need corpses) and Ride the Lightning(l0l) Asssassins are the only class capable of moving instantly to an enemy, and with great effect. And trust me, assassins can do MUCH more than just teleport.

Thats a FEW of the many reasons people say they hate us... But now lets look at some points the good side shall we?

1. Speed.
-"OMG what just happened?!?" This is what I commonly hear in PvP a few seconds after I target someone. Assassins have by far the highest killing speed of any profession in the game. In PvP a sin can stop you in your tracks, teleport to your exact location, lay down about 500+ armor ignoring damage, and apply several very harmful conditions, all in less than 2 seconds. In PvE, with enemies who are normally exceedingly weaker than human powers, an assassin can clear mobs with rates near to nukers. Skills such as Assassins Promise, Death Blossom/Moebius Strike, and run boosts put them among the quickest killers anywhere in the game.

2. Survivability.
-Yep, I said it. Assassins can survive amongst rampaging monsters and such. Personally I always carry defensive skills in my sin builds, and I usually have constant 75% blocking to nearly eliminate Melee damage. Assassins are the only classes able to do this constantly with only one skill(and several skills work for this). While elemental damage can be a problem, most assassin heals can more than cover for it. Even Shadow Refuge every few seconds will heal a considerable amount more than most people think. Way of Perfection with critical hits is another great heal. When healing isn't enough(in many cases it isn't) thats where shadow stepping comes in! Not only is it a great way to surprise enemies in PvP, but the best possible way to get OUT of a battle when things turn bad in PvE! On top of all of this throw in assassins various stances and enchantments for protection, as well as conditions such as Daze and Blind to shut down nearly any enemy. Thats not even getting into a secondary profession!
Oh yea almost forgot, its the only profession with a skill that more or less says: You are invincible for 5..20 seconds.

3. FUN!
-Nothing in this game is more fun than taking an assassin and jumping from target to target killing off enemies one at a time in rapid succession. After 6 months of playing, I have never had more fun with any other profession, or any other types of builds, than a pure assassin.

Thats a little bit about them, but if you ever play one for yourself and become successful at it, you'll quickly realize why so many have chosen to move to the assassin profession.

My theory: Assassins are not properly used much of the time. When assassins first came out, people became crazy to try them. Alot of new players wanted to be a cool assassin ninja kind of character, but really had no idea how to play them. Many assassins these days still aren't sure how to effectively use this profession, and over the months players have died and been unable to kill enemies well enough to compete with other professions. Thus, assassins began to gain a bad reputation as a "noob class". Sort of a class where all the new people wanted to go to seem cooler and stronger, but they really didn't know how. Overall, assassins are not a very easy class to use. Unlike warriors and elementalists where its either load on defense and smack enemies or load on huge firepower to blow things up, assassins require A LOT of strategy to use effectively.

My solution: Learn the basics before you start one. Assassin's are probably not the best idea for a first profession(even though I did

) Unless you know the game basics and learned many of the skills beforehand, starting an assassin can be VERY difficult. Read up on them, learn to use strategy, figure out combinatons, and learn to use builds and techniques effectively and people will start to realize how well assassins work when they are properly used!

Ok, my rants over for today. Comment/rant/spam/flame/laugh/talk/whateverotherwordsyoucanthinkof away!

Darkpower Alchemist · Mar 31, 2007, 03:44 AM // 03:44

Hehe, assassin hate? Assassins started off horribly,and to this day, most are still rather horrible in situations that call for tactic and not a pure fast kill. I never really agreed with the "1 Trick Pony" statement,since that trick is what secondary assassins all use.

Also, sins are well documented for their squishy killing abilities, but what of head to head vs other melee builds? They fall short against a well built warrior, most taking 2 or more combo chains,or a 2nd sin to help kill one warrior of moderate skill. Not taking away from a sin's abilities, but the fact is that they can't go toe to to with a well built warrior. Against a well played dervish, the same is also true. The heavy enchantment warrior mage that we know and love will outlive any sin on the strength of Mysticism.

That being said, I will admit that a well played sin can definitely be a threat on a PvP field. However, let's talk about the sin in their native enviornment,Cantha.

The sin in Cantha is well documented as being a "Liability" in the vast majority of areas in Cantha, due to the fact that they do more auto attacking than skillful killing,as well as the fact that the assassin has a hard time in mob scenarios,even with Death Blossom in their build.

If they dodge and live, that's fine, but a warrior or Dervish is more desired due to the fact that their chances of doing damage are greater and more consistant. Consitancy is the key as a melee character. If you don't agree with this statement, feel free to debate your point. However, sins are not consistant beyond their combo. Interupt the combo, they are in trouble. Avoid the attack in the chain, they are in trouble. Nuke them to high heaven, and they're dead

. That's a joke...lol.

Anyway, the point isn't that sins are bad, but are played poorly and are not as consistant in the field of melee damage as their counterparts. That will always lead to undesired publicity, aka "Hate". They excel in catching squishies all alone on the AB battlefield, but die miserably when toe to toe with a well played Warrior/Derv/Melee build. That isn't a testament against the class, but against the vast majority of players using them. When you find a sin that is played well, then you will find a worthy foe. Yet, that isn't the norm.

jrk247 · Mar 31, 2007, 03:51 AM // 03:51

People hate sins because... they can? Well I know lots of people either like sins or hate them or even both. There are people (a few) that can play the assassin well and others (the majority) that suck at playing the assassin. People hate them because they die easily and too fast if they don't get out of the frontline in time. And then there are the people that hate them because they kill them in about however long it takes the sin to unleash it's attack chain. Mixed feelings, but most people just hate them, just like people hate a good mesmer. People just hate things that either kill them fast or counter their attacks, hence why people hate sins, mesmers, necros, etc. And I'm sure every monk in the GW community hates the assassin.

So here's a question to answer your question: Why not hate the assassin?

Samurai-JM · Mar 31, 2007, 04:01 AM // 04:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrk247

People hate sins because... they can? Well I know lots of people either like sins or hate them or even both. There are people (a few) that can play the assassin well and others (the majority) that suck at playing the assassin. People hate them because they die easily and too fast if they don't get out of the frontline in time. And then there are the people that hate them because they kill them in about however long it takes the sin to unleash it's attack chain. Mixed feelings, but most people just hate them, just like people hate a good mesmer. People just hate things that either kill them fast or counter their attacks, hence why people hate sins, mesmers, necros, etc. And I'm sure every monk in the GW community hates the assassin.

So here's a question to answer your question: Why not hate the assassin?

Because assassins can add great power to any team, in either spiking in PvP or AoE melee nuking in PvE, they add more than enough damage to contend with any other class, and when played right have little or no survivability issues. And to the above post, an assassin can easily kill a warrior with something such as Shadowy Burden or Blinding Powder, but then again any meleer falls to such conditions, including assassins themselves. My point here is that so many people refuse to allow assassins any respect at all in the game, and there is little reason behind it. And if people hate them because they kill things too fast, why not have that power on your team?

jrk247 · Mar 31, 2007, 04:06 AM // 04:06

The assassin stereotype has become too popular in the GW community for it to be acceptable to have sins in a balanced group. Hell the community doesn't even use balanced groups anymore, it's all about who can spike down the opposing team first. I generally agree that sins are powerful and very very deadly if someone knows how to actually use one to it's full potential, but the stereotype of the sin basically screws over any good sin players out there.

Samurai-JM · Mar 31, 2007, 04:12 AM // 04:12

Exactly. This is why I haven't used a pug since I got NF(except when teams were needed such as jennurs horder, DoA) and still got protector of Elona with henches.

Darkpower Alchemist · Mar 31, 2007, 05:34 AM // 05:34

Their isn't one assassin build you could even devise that could beat a riposte swordsman. For that matter, not one melee build you could come up with could beat a capable riposte swordsman.

Blinding powder? Thats all well and good, but riposte will be charged in 4 to 5 hits, and Deadly riposte is an energy skill. Your sin would be bleeding and DW'd before he knew what hit him. Mending touch stops all that blinding powder crap, so then what would you do,my friend, but die. Warriors when played well will always beat a sin. I've killed 3 sins at a time with a riposte build, though it took some doing and a good bit of luck, but 1 sin is never a problem.

Anyway, the point is that the hate is somewhat justified, since most sins run into the buzzsaw instead of doing what they should be doing, which is looking to shut off the power.

ss1986v2 · Mar 31, 2007, 06:57 AM // 06:57

ive always seen an assassin as a liablity in pve, at least when playing in the end game areas. simply put, they get hit far to hard to be in the fray. now that said, with a good build, this isnt an issue. but i wouldnt qualify "good" based on survivability, but rather speed of entrance, kill, and exit. too many sins rely on flashing blades and the like to survive and i think this is a mistake. yes you avoid the melee, but thats not the biggest issue, its the massive caster dmg, especially from bosses. not to mention the clusterfark that is an afflicted mob.

ive always played a sin in pve the same way id play it in pvp: shadow step in, unload my combo, shadow step back out. thats why assassins promise is (one of) my favorite elites to use. the sins auto attack dmg is rather pathetic, so why stick around for it?

as for the question: it all goes back to both the factions preview event and the first month or so of factions. every single wammo in the game said, "i want to be a

!" and they made a sin. they then proceeded to play them just like a warrior. this resulted in them charging head long into an afflicted mob, and even if they did somehow kill something, they were blown to holy hell. this is the cause of the hate for the assassin.

that and the fact that those players still play those sins. just last week, i had a pug sin with breeze, mending, LV, VS, flashing blades, and some filler. his only attack was jagged strike. when i ask him what was up with his build, his response was "ive got to stay alive to spread bleeding to everyone!"

. at least with a bad warrior, he still has a naturally high armor level and a higher, more constant DPS from his auto attacks. a bad sin is usually just minion fodder.

general rule of thumb:

bad warrior > bad assassin
good warrior = good assassin

in the end, its not the sin itself, its how people play the sin more than anything. if you plan on tanking with your sin, please just roll a warrior or derv. if you want to make use of your shadow stepping and massive spike potential, then bring your sin to the party plz.

pvp is a different animal all together, and id rather no get to into that. lets just leave it that a good sin is just as valuable in pvp as a good warrior, and in some situations can even be better.

moko · Mar 31, 2007, 10:29 AM // 10:29

why i hate assassins?

it's easy to answer.

they're a gimmick class. force me to play assasin and i'll die of boredomness and rage for 2 hours.

- they aren't versatile AT ALL
- most "good" sin builds base on the same freaking boring concept
- thsoe that don't base it on suck
- if the spike fails, they're useless for a certain time period and can't pressure for **** - which is done easily, one hex, a blind, can ruin the whole freaking chain and nullify (sp?) the whole damage, which it wouldn't do for a warrior or dervish

that's my reasons i quickly came up with.

in pve, i'd take them in a group anyday, in pvp, although many love them, i prefer to not have any in my party if it's possible.

Hecates Hellion · Mar 31, 2007, 10:39 AM // 10:39

Hi,

I am currently favouring my assain char and quite enjoying hunting for the Elite skills. I would say im fairly new to the class, having started one ages ago and left it as she seemed to be "squishy"

Now I am a more rounded player and have learned patience i find the Sin a joy to play.

Trying differnt combos of skills out for more that 5 minutes helps. YES the build may be bad but you can learn to understand Why its bad.

I find Go basic on the attack chain - and FIND the elite Flashing bladed and this makes you so much more of a survior. Also neco second prof for plague touch is worth it. No wasted points on skills you dont need.

I can cut down many PvE healers down in 3/4 hits - Shadow stepping past the wall of defendes using Critical Eye and Way of perfection before teleporting - 3 quick hits - corpse - Flahing blades - then in to the mix.

Assassins can Rock - But you need to know how to Roll first

Shuuda · Mar 31, 2007, 11:03 AM // 11:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

why i hate assasins?

it's easy to answer.

they're a gimmick class. force me to play assasin and i'll die of boredomness and rage for 2 hours.

- they aren't versatile AT ALL
- most "good" sin builds base on the same freaking boring concept
- thsoe that don't base it on suck
- if the spike fails, they're useless for a certain time period and can't pressure for **** - which is done easily, one hex, a blind, can ruin the whole freaking chain and nullify (sp?) the whole damage, which it wouldn't do for a warrior or dervish

that's my reasons i quickly came up with.

in pve, i'd take them in a group anyday, in pvp, although many love them, i prefer to not have any in my party if it's possible.

Shows what some people know. I've seen lots of uses for assassins, within their great offence power, an IAS can work wonders with a Daze skill on a sin (gg monks)they also offer some good hexes as snares, offence weakeners, good at applying deep wound and other conditions, good spiking, good pressure with BD + Moebius. In PvP I feel it is the BoA/SP Sterotype which makes people hate them, it makes me hate other assassins sometimes as well. But if assassins suck in PvP, why do we have Necros who take builds just to stop them, surely if they suck, they wouldn't need to.

Monks are the only bad proffession in guild wars.

moko · Mar 31, 2007, 11:17 AM // 11:17

Quote:

an IAS can work wonders with a Daze skill on a sin (gg monks)

Temple Strike isn't really good, Beguiling Haze's daze duration doesn't last long enough to really be deadly :?

Quote:

they also offer some good hexes as snares

those hexes & snares are mostly used on assasin SECONDARIES actually, not primaries, except of course siphon, but it's not there to snare like actual snarers (cripshot, water eles), just to get your spike target easier.

Quote:

good at applying deep wound and other conditions,

no. the conditions are part of the black spike build, an assasin will have a bad time spreading conditions, so therefore HARDLY ANY CONDITIONS over a long time period. don't think anyone has ever made a moebius build that relies on condition spreading which actually works.

Quote:

good spiking

i've already put my input on this one.

Quote:

good pressure with BD + Moebius

BD? and the pressure isn't that good really, i've tried it. :}

Quote:

In PvP I feel it is the BoA/SP Sterotype which makes people hate them

it's not a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing stereotype, it's the meta. go observe, and tell me how many of the assassins you saw WERE NOT SP.

Quote:

why do we have Necros who take builds just to stop them, surely if they suck, they wouldn't need to.

of course, necromancers only exist to stop assassins, that's why assassins were introduced after necromancers.

Quote:

Monks are the only bad proffession in guild wars.

die.

oh btw, what the hell is BD?

Yanman.be · Mar 31, 2007, 11:52 AM // 11:52

He meant DB, Death Blossom.

Shuuda · Mar 31, 2007, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

Temple Strike isn't really good, Beguiling Haze's daze duration doesn't last long enough to really be deadly :?

With a Silencing mod the Daze on Beguiling is more than enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

those hexes & snares are mostly used on assasin SECONDARIES actually, not primaries, except of course siphon, but it's not there to snare like actual snarers (cripshot, water eles), just to get your spike target easier.

Well, Siphon strength, that gets love hearts from me, nice anti melee skill. sure the 15 energy looks back, but it's easy to regen energy, and using Ebon dagger can turn you into an anti melee warrior, using a good combo which allows you to do good damage Vs casters. And you havn't had a good look at the other hexes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

no. the conditions are part of the black spike build, an assasin will have a bad time spreading conditions, so therefore HARDLY ANY CONDITIONS over a long time period. don't think anyone has ever made a moebius build that relies on condition spreading which actually works.

Fevered Dreams > Black mantis > Black spider > Blinding powder > Twisting fangs.Just off the top of my head.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

it's not a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing stereotype, it's the meta. go observe, and tell me how many of the assassins you saw WERE NOT SP.

I have, and all assassins I saw were SP, and I see them in GvGs as well, and RA, and FA/AB, and TA. They are the most common assassin build out there, therefore becomes the icon of what we 1st think about when we say assassin builds, all proffessions have a sterotype, like Nuker, Mending wammo etc, most of which are seen as bad things, like Prot and healing monks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mokone

die.

oh btw, what the hell is BD?

Monks are cowards, I'd say different if they buffed the smite line.

NinjaKai · Mar 31, 2007, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shuuda

Monks are cowards, I'd say different if they buffed the smite line.

Not entirely true. In DoA titans spawned behind gate. Started attacking me, I was the SB monk. Rather than run I jus stood there and took it. Temporary tank. XD

Back on topic: Assassins are a good class like any when used correctly. Even assassin secondary is fun. Shadow stepping dervish.

Am I A Good Sin · Mar 31, 2007, 02:16 PM // 14:16

Ok off the top of my head
Dagger mastery : 12
Critical strikes : 13
Shadow arts: 10 or higher
Zealous PvP Daggers of Fortitude
Black Spider Strike-> Twisting Fangs-> Moebious strike-> Horns of the ox ( or Death blossom )
There's ur atk line up. Very simple to use if u know anything of what ur doing.
Critical defences, some shadow arts hex , Shadow of perfection and last but not least res sig for PvE and GvG etc. Or another heal/hex/critical eye for AB FA and etc. This puts out conditions like crazy since both skills that apply conditions r recharged by Moebious strike and also u can put out a constant area dmg or knock down depending on your 4th skill.
Since this is of the top of my head I'm sure I forgot something....... Oh well I'm sure that the sin experts of GW might find something wrong with this and maybe post something that makes it better. Idk. I'm done ranting and raving now. Well.... Moebious strike can be great for applying conditions and pressure.... Now I'm done.

Hyper Cutter · Mar 31, 2007, 05:19 PM // 17:19

I still don't know why they put the sin in the chapter with the monsters that EXPLODE when you kill them...

Karomi Saoshi · Mar 31, 2007, 05:52 PM // 17:52

Ok, couple things, Darkpower, any melee who attacks a riposte warrior is a complete idiot (no offense), and if you couldn't think of one assassin build to beat a riposte tank, have you ever heard of a deadly arts spiker. One in particular is the Blinding Surge deadly arts build on wiki. Its not hard to beat a riposte warrior with deadly arts, no attacking=no dmg, seeing how most of the dmg comes from the dual ripostes. (Btw, not slamming you

). Oh, btw and mokone....wow, i would say something but the others already said it. And hyper i agree with you. Whenever your in a mob with 8 afflicted and a nuker on your team kills them all your basically screwed....But assassin is by far my favorite class and the things that gave them bad names are basically the afflicted and wannabe ninjas who get excited with shadow stepping. I've seen this happen a lot in bad assassins. They shadowstep into a giant mob and die before they do anything, which is a common beginners mistake, but ppl need to stop classifying the assassin with bad/new players, b/c its not like other classes don't have bad players with them. How do you think the zerg rush term came up

? With warriors thinking they're invincable and running into a mob, its harder to find a good warrior these days than a good assassin. Anyways, hope the things i said make sense

Enchanted Warrior · Mar 31, 2007, 06:07 PM // 18:07

Ss'ns were designed for pvp, in pve they are viewed as cannon fodder and not taken seriously. But a good player can be very deadly with a ss'n.

I deleted mine because of the hate and how GW more or less abandoned them.

Coloneh · Mar 31, 2007, 06:26 PM // 18:26

I love my assassin, but even i admit they are a gimmik class. or a 1 trick pony.

assassins really only do 1 thing: go in, attack chain, go out. thats it, over and over.

they do die quite easily because they barely have any useable defensive skills. this is made even worse because of faction's afflicted soul explosions. the OPs arguments about assassin defenses were all about blocking skills. warriors can be taken out pretty easily, but a necro or ele will shut your down.